How to have powerful executive conversations

Welcome to reveal the revenue intelligence podcast powered by gone where your hosts Devin Reed instead of opinions, making data-driven decisions based on facts instead of opinions or guesswork deal intelligence and Market intelligence, you know, the things all revenue teams need and care about every week. We interview senior Revenue professionals and share their stories and insights on how they leverage Revenue intelligence to drive success and when their Market you'll hear how modern go to market teams win as a team close Revenue with critical deal insight and execute their strategic initiatives plus all the challenges that come along with it.

Gina you meet with our executive leadership team what three times a week four times a week maybe every single day that is true. But it's true do when your meeting with the elt one of those conversations like and by that I mean when you're in these meetings, maybe the strategy meetings maybe the meeting specifically to make decisions. What are some of the components that make them effective?

Yeah, you know when they're being with Executives the first the first thing to think about is like these folks are extremely busy. They are navigating multiple conversations multiple decisions each and every day. You may have a meeting with them on the lessons that we've learned from some marketing campaigns for example, or working with them on a presentation that they will be doing coming up. But the meeting. They just had before that may have been on something completely different. So they're like what leading the meeting I think your role is really too.

Make whatever information that you are sharing with them if we digestible so they can quickly context which Uso.

Provide a summary upfront set that up front context so that they understand. Why are we meeting here in the first place? You had told me last week that you're going to set up this meeting over to talk, but they likely forgot because a million things happened between that one week as a person reading this meeting. You really have to be prepared to have an agenda have a clear purpose for why we're being the first place. We're not here to just chit-chat. What do you hope to accomplish at the end of the meeting? I keep that front of Center and then make sure you get that at the end and reiterate what that decision is or set of decisions. Are they made together?

and then probably the last piece that I say is come with Solutions not problems and I think there was probably heard that but it's extremely true you know Executives dummies Oregon you can make it for them to make a decision the better off you'll be as a provider options if you've done homework if you've no had folks to research on the different voices that they have laid out for them those are few tips that I'd have but this is kind of what we're circling around here writing it it's very similar when you're selling to Executives as well I was kind of jotting down what you shared and its really similar just a slight are you looking through a different lens be prepared rice what I'm going into a meeting selling two Executives I have to be prepared have to know who I'm talking to. To know what I'm talking about I need to know it very well

Because I need to speak concisely right time to started. The other thing is having a very clear outcome at the beginning of the call. Ideally within the first 30 60 second. I actually would do it before intros like before we get into intros and anything else. Here's why we're meeting now. Let's go around the table to set the table. Who's bringing what to do the meeting and the conversation and the other one is I think kind of

Going to build off those two, which is like owning the conversation. It's really easy to get sidetracked. If someone you know, someone pokes is on a really you're nitpicking or like hey the overall this make sense, but that one bullet point in that slide and then you spent 14 15 minutes talking about that and then you do, you know, you got two minutes left in a meeting and you haven't accomplished what you set out for those are kind of my three my three things which is crap having a clear outcome and then toning the conversation.

You are more concise than me. So I think I think you're ready for the next set combo account director at salesforce.com. And that's all we talked about was his approach and it's exactly we talked about units being clear concise. But also how to have a human touch to another human element to really build a connection. And so let's go hang out with you and hear what he has to say. Happy Friday to you. Thanks for hanging out with us on reveal today. How's it going? Good, how you doing?

my favorite day of the week this thing out despite Saturday so I'm doing great I'm going to go to amazing field leaders like you so Devin and I get pumped up before we head into the weekend I am right there with you by Friday we'll have a wine tasting event where we picked three of the top International wines for our senior Executives in our best via happy clients at 2 today so I will go get to share and you know hosts very breaker to people so I'm looking forward to the rest of the day to done with our team a couple weeks ago it was very fun you know if you can't get out to the Sonoma or wherever you live out to the wine tasting in person how they recommend having it sent to you is nothing nothing wrong with that it's amazing response. So we did a sock in wanted me to The Whiskey One In The Wind one client will that you generally might not get ahold

Break, everyone is feeling. So it's just a nice no business talk. It's just literally learning about spirits and getting people together for you. No appreciation. I would love to see the data behind the acceptance rate between people with kids and without kids but something tells me that the group with kids is our sleeping a little faster than the other side. It's funny cuz I have two under 4 and my my oldest made a cameo in the last tasting

I love that in your the Strategic account director over at Salesforce. Can you tell us a little bit about you know what that role entails and we can focus on right now. So my job is to align the best possible resources at Salesforce and to make sure that our entire team which MyTeam is over 20, people are supporting the customers top initiative their most strategic initiatives helping him accelerate time to value your caption more customers Drive growth, you know, whatever it is. They're they're focused on and I bring the breadth and depth Salesforce to them. So I have under me not directly under me. It's dotted line, but I'll have the Tableau account executive and their sales engineer and their team the mulesoft county executive still essentially everything that is sold under Salesforce umbrella and our subsidiaries rolls up and I would get ECB credit for all of our products of my my jobs interesting. I do carry my own bag of

Salesforce products within I'm also quarterbacking a lot of these other Acquisitions and their teams to make sure what they're doing lines with the overall strategy in the account so that's that's my rule that says it's nice to have a comprehensive view across like the new product Acquisitions then going to Rolling those into your own portfolio and helping to now sell this new vision of Salesforce trust these new additional components like to write all you look for it is a knell when you have a screwdriver and when you have a level and every other tool you can really solve any problem so if that's that's really my job is to make sure I'm understanding their problems and then bringing in the team the resource of quarterback and actual deals to make sure that we are helping the client with the areas that they need most help in it it's amazing I mean I I am getting most of my

She be this year will come from Tableau and it will come from marketing cloud. And we have a big meal self deal. We're working on now. I mean sales cloud is pretty saturated write the CRM. Typical Market is not growing Salesforce, maybe 10 to 15% But when you talk about some of these other areas the platform and smooth operation tools and strategies spinach grow through acquisition will take these new products to our current customer base and now they you know, really again and we become more of a partner cuz a lot of like one of my largest accounts the huge Tableau and you know, they're coming to me and saying how can we manage this more as a global organization? So I'm collaborating with the Tableau team and the Pea peas and but it it's as a sales manager and a director of sales for a 70 80 employees in my last wall before this and that whole skill set of a quarterbacking in sales people. It's really coming into Ambien. It was in the beginning it first it was just in

Contributor, but now it's all coming full circle. So I'm using some of the skills that I had as a sales leader now just to execute in my current job to overcoming some difficult personal challenges and and you have a new definition now for what success actually means. I'm curious what is being successful mean to you. It means so much I'd save to simplify the definition. It's fulfilling your full potential for me being successful means using your gifts that God has given you and putting them to maximum use across all aspects of your life. Right? So for me success means getting better each day a little bit better each day and in realizing what you in a nobody's perfect. We all have our our challenges. I used to be all in with just my career and I finish number one at Salesforce and not took a big sacrifice in terms of my family life and

My health in you know, I had my struggles, you know, I I struggled with addiction and you know, I really have taken a step back especially this year especially can focus on the important things and for me that was family is getting healthy and I'm proud to say that I'm in a better spot than I've ever been in my life. Not because I have more money or because I have more success in my role. But because I have better relationships with the people that are closest to me. I'm just more giving back to others verses just you know, I'm focusing on myself and my own income. So that's how I would define success is pursuing and fulfilling your potential and then continuous Improvement, you know in all aspects of Life above that approach to there's a quote from Jim Carrey that I love. It says, I think everybody should get rich and famous and do everything I ever dreamed of so they can see that it's not the answer you now that I actually heard that quote to Devon and it's so true and you don't know that until you get to the top that's the ironic thing.

Rich people that are miserable and focus on the choir and wealth or success in the material. I pivoted that whole thing of looking on his head this year. I took paternity leave. I took 12 weeks off witch in sales unheard-of just to be with my family and support my wife. I used to pick sales courses. I took a supporting her work for you to support Rosa Park so many different things. I mean I cut my vices like you would not believe we're now my only Vice I mean it really is just being on on this thing on my phone too much and what kind of a side Hustle but I do they're still there's a reason for that but it's all about awareness and change is not easy change takes intention. So if there's areas in your life that

I need attention you have to give them attention or nothing's going to change. So, you know when I started my journey and sales what I needed to put focus on his being the best sales person I could be and I paid over $50,000 to EUR join a program and get mentorship and join The Mastermind and literally just start from beginning on learning how to be the best salesperson. I could be and I finish number one. Year and then I finished in the top five. Well, I nailed that that piece of it. Like I said, we all these personal things that got left behind you cannot do it all things you can do it all is mistaken. You have to stay focus focus is the key. If you focus on you know, when you're working work and minimize a distraction when you're with family be present and you know, you can have most most of the cabin all but you can't have pretty good balance in a place now where I am fortunate where I can have health. I exercise everyday I

like I said I stopped a lot of devices that I struggled with I spent a lot of time with my family I cook I work really hard and I'm continuing to perform I have a side business in the only way to do that is is to be laser-focused encounter each of these areas versus trying to do everything and not doing anything really well so you pick what's important in key areas and then you spend your time doing this and don't waste a lot of time that's for sure that's how I'm able to manage all these things I love that as a new dad this year as well I can definitely definitely test the importance of focus I tell Sheena all the time I have a newfound respect for you she's a mom of 3 and you know crushing in her role and I'm a dad of one she's two months and I'm like oh my God it's the whole different level and you got to be laser-focused and sharp with your time to keep like you said to be filled in all of those individual buckets versus I'm overflowing as a performing a sales performance but you know bone dry and some of these other bug

Yeah, and you're you're you're so right and congratulate. Congratulations on your newborn - 4 month old has taken a whole new level this year a focus to be able to to do at all. You just take what you can and accept where you're at and knowing you're doing your best. That's that's my new philosophy not success to me in the spirit of focus and awareness. I asked you in to come join us on reveal because I wanted to dive into you know, how to have impactful and zakat of conversations and I'd love to hear from you maybe to starting by why is that so important and such a critical skill for sales pros and maybe even tell liters to have I used to work 50 60 hours a week in Salesforce and I would grind it out and I would spend a lot of time.

On a lot of smaller deal and I had to control everything. So what happens when you sell that way as your spread thin and you're all of it was Eminem. I might have 10 to 20 opportunities going at one time and just like we talked about with Focus. What I realized is it used to be a little bit of time with a lot of different people and a lot of opportunities at lower levels in terms of my cell cycle. Now a lot of time with very few people at the executive level. So by shifting your focus to Executives really in in in the sales world my cordless around 2 million dollars I could do, you know 20 deals at a hundred K to get the quote. I need to sell one or two deals a month to hit it or I can do one deal at 2 million dollars in in reality. Those those same Hunter cables take more or less the same time.

Are the 2 million dollar deal seller when I realize that, you know, you don't have to work in this grind of chasing if that's the hard way and I did it for years and years. Most of myself. But stocking 2017. You know what I did this big investment. I made a decision that I was going to focus on solving company's problems and having a huge impact on my customers. You just don't do that for 20K dealer 50 KVA, but if you're really going to change a business and how they work you need to solve the biggest problems in the people who know the biggest problems are the ones at the c-suite or sitting on the board or the executives and the only way to find out those problems are our to connect with them. So it makes every bit of difference in the world of sales. If you don't know how to connect with Executives, if you don't know how to speak to them if you're not know how to prospect to them. If you don't know how to open them up you're going to be grinding it out and slave.

Way to get your quota and that's doing it the hard way Ammon fortunately. That's what that's majority of salespeople. Do they think they grind to get the planning to get burnt out when you don't have to do that. You just need to find a few, you know, Kiki Jacks with some big problems. So I'm an alpha Connor. It's really what I do. And then I have my smaller deals that kind of you you get your singles and doubles that, you know get you to plan and when you close that your larger deal that 123 million dollar deal back at you two number one that could chew the Chairman's Club. That's the way to do it is you want to have your singles and doubles going but don't rely on me also have to have you know, your ear 3 for deals that are very large that can make your whole year if you get them until I mastered but I definitely have gotten very good at setting meetings with c-suite and finding problems and kind of executing that. Sales process. It'll be executive level earned a little bit through your own career.

How to upload Evel who you're speaking to I'm curious when you take a look at it. Like if you had 30 minutes on the calendar of an executive versus 30 minutes on the calendar when they be a manager level or whoever you may have been talking with the forehead. How was that 30-minute conversation different now at this exact level 3 minutes preparing. That's the first just happened right? You have to you know, it's a lot of time is it in energy into actually getting the meeting in the first place and that's where it starts. But once you get the meeting, I think you need to do a few things to prepare to make that meeting a second number one is you need to come with the point of view. You need to think about you know, what they're dealing with and what they're trying to solve for income in with a high-level point of view on how and where

You can help them know some of this is going to be speculative cuz you never talk to him before but most Executives have a lot of public data available. When it's what I do before I meet with the executive in preparation is I will if if they've ever been interviewed I will read their interviewed zelle take notes and all kind of pull out some things up there talking about number two, if they've ever been on a podcaster in a video. I will watch the videos and pull out now. It's antique are so basically I compiled notes that hear the things you care about and then I take those notes and say okay, which of those specific things can we solve for which of those things can we impact right? So I think just when you reach out you got another business probably also need to know like what is going to connect it that human-to-human level for me, you know, if it's not really so much of like, how can I plant out? This is exactly genda it's really like what am I curious about? What do I want to reflect back to them? And then it's it's like if I

30 minutes my goals are really simple. It's my point of view with them. Okay, in terms of where I think we can help and and get their feedback. We on the right things or is it something else that's more important to you that you want to talk about or what's you know completely top of mine for you? So I typically wheelchair customer story of another customer that is trying to do the same thing. That is already working Salesforce that's been able to get some results. So we have a reference points, but most of the time it's literally just going through my question in the questions are simple. It's really you know, what right now is your top priority in terms of what's keeping you up at night. What is your biggest challenge facing? Why is that a challenge? What do you plan to do with about it? What's the impact if you saw that on you that that's that's the the difference in Executives Sheena and the managers that the managers are very laser focus on like their job. The executives are focused on their business their company their Vision at flash executives are very direct Bill open up to

Right away. Once they know that you're not some person that's just like cold calling blindly and in doesn't know who they are right by the time the 30 minutes comes. I know why I'm talk then typically. I know what I'm going to say. I know when I'm going to ask it's usually a lot of friends of 30 minutes to turn into an hour.

Alright everyone in every episode. We like to have a date of breakout a quick sidebar to look at the data gone labs are did a research team analyzed 9056 sales opportunities to see how decision-maker involvement in deals affected windbreaks and turns out that deals that did not involve decision-makers defined as having a VP or cxo title were 80% less likely to close and when we looked at Enterprise Deals Deals that have a sale cycle that's longer than 90 days and a contract valued at over $100,000. The Gap got even bigger Enterprise deals had a whopping 233% drop and close rates. Enterprise deals were a whopping 233% less likely to close if the decision maker wasn't involved in other words virtually impossible to close.

So does that mean you should involve the decision-maker at every step of your deal? Really when we looked at the correlation between win rates and the percentage of calls were decision-makers were present the data shows that sometimes less is more when rates were highest when decision-makers play the role of the approver someone who has the final say on a purchase as opposed to the evaluator someone who assesses the purchase from an operational perspective and is much more involved in the deal. The lowest one rates actually happened when the decision maker was very involved in the deal. Why because they get fuel fatigued they've invested too much time in the deal and they don't see a return around the bend so they give up and your deal goes downhill. So what is this all mean? Well the most interesting takeaway here is that you don't need a decision maker to run the entire deal getting them involved in your deal is crucial, but don't overcomplicate your deal by trying to drive them into every meeting instead.

Include them in one or two impactful conversations about what matters most to them. I like the cold Outreach example, I think you know you really walked us through what that takes how to prepare. I'd be really interested to hear from you in is in a lot of deals are at the influencer level are the champion level. What is your advice on tactics folks can use to unlock access to that person in the c-suite so they get an opportunity to do what you had just discussed in terms of you know, being curious and getting there by and etcetera. Doesn't know always happen, So you just got to do it the more you do it you get better but if you can't get there to begin with and you get you know at a director-level, maybe a VP of a department Who's the champion her influencer? I think a couple couple

News that I typically would go about getting access to power. First of all, I'll give you a full disclaimer in that just cuz they're a champion or influence her doesn't mean they don't have power some people get deals done in the I never talked to a c-suite executive. It's not always sometimes they come in at the end. It's not always start high go down and go back up. Right? It doesn't always work that way but I'm stuck it. Like let's just say a director-level or senior director and they can't sign off and have to get their boss. I'm typically what I'll do is all Empower them to go in and you don't put their fingerprints on whatever we're presenting and I'll say look my best experience in my most successful experience in helping clients get our products and services is when we have the decision maker or the person who has to sign off, you know in the room so they can ask questions so we can make sure we're mapping to their priorities and we can make sure that you know,

Missing anything that they care about with with our proposal Who besides yourself needs to sign off on this project. Who do you have to sell this to and usually they'll tell you and I'll say what is that process looks like and they'll usually tell you they all say what what I'd like to do is I'd like to go through what I'm going to propose with you and give you a first glance and get your feedback make sure it's an album that I'd like to both co-present to your CFO or your Cil with your input right to make sure you know, it it it it definitely hits the mark on with what they're going to want to see but my experience has been when we get him in the room. I'm also going to have my vice-president there as well. So be good to get them aligned with with your executive then things move a lot quicker versus you having to sell this all on your own with that be okay. So, you know, you make them part of the process now if they don't want engage and they don't want to bring in their boss or they're like a control freak, you know, you can give him a chance to sell it and turn away, but if it's not going anywhere and they're not

Successful, right then you have to go over their head. You have to go over, you know to their boss or whoever it is. If you don't have access, you know through them then you have to go on your own or figure out if you have your jack reach out, but typically don't find that happens, you know, 9/10 x my Champion will bring in their boss because they want this and they know they want the boss to see it firsthand but where you can Empower them and you no one wants to feel like they have no power right? So I find that, you know, activating your champion and getting them to get you in front of the right people is is more effective than going over some imagined in your old way of doing things 3 2020 you spent a lot of time on site with your customers. You would have lunch maybe you bumping into one of the decision-makers or Unisom senior Executives at the client site itself. And of course that's actual so I'm curious what's been the impact of

Is motion giving everything is virtual and you're still selling very complex large deals. And the number to how are you making the most of virtual and getting in front of in front of the execs? The motion hasn't changed much. Right what's changed is the dinner conversation? And if you've been in sales a long time, you know what I'm talkin about it when you get the real skinny, right? You're you're sitting at the table with the exact and they say here's what we really need to get a nice bottle of wine and they start to open up and they start to go in and you know, they really start to make sure that they're telling you the truth and it's like it's amazing what happens outside of the office so being and selling and covid-19 can't get on a golf course, you can't take him to dinner. You can't do these things work connections are bill. So it really does come down to I would say the relationship aspect is not going to be a strong over video just isn't a fortune.

What you really need to do is make your execution strong need to follow up. Do what you say you're going to do get back to people quickly. Make sure you you know run at run a tight Mutual plan with and just be a pro. You know what I think I think what this type of selling does is you you cut past all the you know, the formalities and you can sit down to business. That's what I'm finding on video people want to get down to business and you know it it's been a transition for sure because I'm a social, you know animal, I'd love to hang out with people on the night. I just have a lot in common with a lot of people I can be a chameleon where I can blend and talk about the family or talk about struggles and talk about running or whatever like literally whatever football and that's just how I am. I enjoy your talk about with people you want to talk about I can pull from whatever it's really hard to do that you can't shoot the shit as much Uber over resume.

Right on so, you know, my my Approach has been that is still cycle generally are shorter because you're like laser focused and What needs to get done? The other thing is is that clients now or I'm seeing because they're not flying around as much they're not going to is many conferences that type of thing used to be like a month or two to get on someone's calendar at the c-suite and how it's like a week or two. So, I don't know if it's been I'm not going to say easier and hasn't been easier but I think it's been worth the tragedy of covalent and used it for are reshaping are our top tracks with our customers to focus more on transformation and Innovation. I'm using this time to start business vs. Contractor business. We shifted what we're selling to write. So we have a solution work out, which is you know focused on

You know specifically things related to to covid and supporting, you know, the remote employees and we have your vaccine Management in the new solutions that are specific for you know this time. We're in it's it's been a big shift but in general I haven't we haven't seen much down down side in business because of coconuts for sure.

I'm curious in intelligence podcast wheel of data. I'm curious if you have any like benchmarks kti's recently ways that you measure decision-maker involvement in your deals. Like you guys have like a threshold do some deals going to have my haters is Baseline threshold. We know if we don't get past it we're going to be in trouble or weekend forecast it or any other ways that you can view, you know measuring, you know, some of the things you've been talking about him like how important access is for your deals specifically metrics where

In all this just kind of spit ball yet. Hope what I look for if I know what deals going to happen or not. Right number one above and beyond all else. Everything else is it doesn't matter except this one is the most important. Are we at Power? Okay, that's by far the most important are we had power and as I mentioned before power speeds up the deal power needs to get things done now cuz I have a burning problem on their hands. We are at Power and power has a problem, which is number 2 that is the two enough for me that the two biggest one. So, what's the problem that they're trying to solve? Are we at Power? Okay. Can we solve it?

Okay. So those are not necessarily, you know measures there more qualitative measures, but you know, if you don't know if your power you ask them, when was the last time you brought in a new technology and your organization? What is that look like have you ever been able to execute something like this before but you know, that's how you know, cuz if they haven't done it examples I check with it. They know their process. They know what it takes to, you know, create a business cases before that's the start. You know, that that's the third metric so power problem business case. So so impact. What is the r a y other solution have we Quantified the impact, you know of them going over another words every month that they wait. It's costing them this much costing this much an employee time is causing this much in, you know, lost customer Revenue. It's costing this much in a trip, right? So, you know, that's part of the problem when they tell you they were problem you have to ask

Is it as a sales rep what's the impact of this problem? What are the metrics that you're trying to fix? So this Chief customer officer that I mentioned earlier or metric was she was trying to get her MPS score her net promoter score from like a round 0 to 30. That was a big problem because their goal was to convert free to pay customers right in their free customers were actually, you know, the ones that were you know that the most unhappy and have the lowest MPS Corso. How do you serve the free customers at scale that was probably trying to do so that they become a customs. How do you give me the best support even though they're not paying and they don't have access to a call center agent diving into his metrics. And then okay. What is the conversion rate specifically for 3 to pay? What is it worth? Your average customer is $20 a month. That's paid just to 40 year and if you convert 1 million of those per year that's 240 million dollars at the problem for a 5 billion dollar company.

I won't need names for confidentiality purposes, but that's exactly exercise me to go through as I poke. What would have 1% conversion mean from 3 to pay and then that's your business justification of whatever technology still having that you no problem have a cost in then showing them what the Improvement would be with your software in the large Enterprise. It's it's really important cuz you know, something's not budgeted. They have to go ask for money in order to do that. They typically need to present a business case internally and Nora why so we have a whole team its color business Volume 15 that helps our clients co-create that it's the metrics around that stuff. So I would say, you know, those three are super important in Ni, it shipped literally spreadsheets, like literally are we have power? What is the problem? We're trying to solve you have we done a business case? And then what's the timeline? Is there a compelling event that is forcing them to have to make this change now in Salesforce and we're on a spreadsheet is like do we have all these metrics that make up a good deal?

Just like the basic stuff. Like is there an MSA in place with the customer already want to get that process started? You know, so that doesn't creep at the last minute and causes slippage some really great tips on specific questions to ask making sure that you're checking all those boxes that you're both measuring the metrics around your own deal process, but you're also asking our relationship to understand the metric that are important for the customer and understanding how they measure their business was just focused on that like I've moved from Brigham and what do you care about why you care about it? You know, what are you trying to accomplish? And then how can we help right now? Those are those are the questions and if you're talking about you and all the great things you do they could care less and care. What company Salesforce any company, right?

I had to wrap up all of our conversations and I'm curious very curious to hear what you're going to say to this one is how would you describe sales in one word?

roller coaster

I know but we can hyphenate it if we need to. Let's see roller coaster.

Yeah, roller coaster roller coaster should be one work as we're recording this at the end of Q4 at the end of 2020. I think that's a very very telling of the year in the time of year were in right now. Yeah, I mean sales is up and down. That is the best description I can give cuz the reality is we didn't sign up for a career or profession. That is smooth coasting. Right? We're not we're not riding. The ferry. We're on the roller coaster was going to be bumps. There's going to be big drops. There's going to be a slow build-up. She's going to be times where you're throwing up say I'm literally and you know, you got it just enjoy the ride right? Sometimes you need to realize you're on a roller coaster and that's what you sign up for it. If you don't have to step on that roller coaster and there's a lot of other rides there at the park with your a lot easier than a lot of other jobs and careers. It's never going to be easy. I don't care who you are what you do?

And as I possibly could be in my role and it's still a roller coaster. There's always always hiccups and deals with always asks, which are impossible is always just made an unexpected twists and turns so yeah, that's that's that the nature of sales and you can enjoy enjoy the ride. So you're on a roller coaster try and enjoy it try and take it for what it is and you know you it's your choice to be on it. So don't complain.

Mother-in-law thanks for hanging out with us on a Friday. I hope you enjoyed it. I know I did but the listeners did as well, but go get your wine on and you know, I'm sure we'll we'll be chatting again on LinkedIn sooner than later together and everything you guys are doing and thanks for having me on for sure.

Every week we like to bring you a micro action something you can think about or put in the play today involving decision-makers in the right way at the right time is a skill that you can always improve hear some actions that you can take immediately to help increase decision-maker engagement in your pipeline first focus on the sea level first, but if you can't get them directly Engage The Champion or an influencer and work your way up next stay curious investor time to prepare for executive meetings. And thoroughly researcher Prospect. The next is a fun one coming to the meeting with a specific point of view. Think about what they're trying to solve and how you're uniquely positioned to help them next make your Champion part of the process do a run-through with them first and then co-present to the sea level decision-maker and last and possibly most importantly measure decision-maker involvement throughout each deal.

Ask yourself. Are we at power does the power have a problem? How can we solve it? And what's the quantifiable impact of our solution and the cost of not moving forward today?

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