Overcoming "Imposter Syndrome" with Maria Tribble
Overcoming "Imposter Syndrome" with Maria Tribble
You know that voice in your head? (yes, the one you’re using to read this sentence). It can be your best friend, but other times it can become a serious source of negative self-talk – one of the many effects of imposter syndrome. Maria Tribble, VP of Enterprise Sales at PathFactory, shares her relationship with imposter syndrome and how to kick the habit. You’ll learn why so many people in sales struggle with imposter syndrome, how it derails our true potential, and how to recognize your own triggers and hopefully....overcome them.
Maria TribbleVP of Enterprise Sales, PathFactory
Devin Reed: Welcome to Reveal: The Revenue Intelligence Podcast powered by Gong. We're your hosts, Devin Reed.
Sheena Badani: I'm Sheena Badani. Revenue intelligence is a new way of operating based on customer reality. Instead of opinions, making data- driven decisions based on facts instead of opinions or guesswork.
Devin Reed: It's made up of three success pillars, people, intelligence, deal intelligence, and market intelligence. The things all revenue teams need and care about. Every week, we interview senior revenue professionals and share their stories and insights on how they leverage revenue intelligence to drive success and win their market.
Sheena Badani: You'll hear how modern go- to- market teams win as a team close revenue with critical deal insight and execute their strategic initiatives. Plus all the challenges that come along with it.
Devin Reed: Sheena, you know that voice in your head, it's the voice that you hear, air quotes on here. When you're reading, it's the voice in your head, you're talking to yourself. Is that voice for you always positive, more positive, sometimes negative? What's going on in your head?
Sheena Badani: Well, I think these days, I want to go to that voice and ask them if it's the same voice that existed there one and a half years ago, because I feel like the voice in my head has changed particularly with the pandemic and not in a positive way. I think over these over the past year plus because of the situations, because of circumstances, I actually find myself being harder on myself, having higher expectations when, if I was to step back and create my own voice that I could listen to, it should be opposite. I feel like I should be easier on myself that," Hey, we have all these stresses, all these outside forces that we can't control." Unfortunately for whatever reason, the voice is harsher and has higher expectations for me these days.
Devin Reed: I cannot imagine that you're alone. I haven't noticed if mine is necessarily in the last year and a half, but I can definitely tell you, when I was younger, early 20s, the voice was much harsher on myself. I think I was much harder on myself. The reason we're talking about this is because the power of that voice is very impactful. It can shape your day. It's when people say," Oh, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed." I've noticed like that the tone of that voice in the morning to start your day can really kick off the trajectory for your day. Sometimes if you're more tired, if you're more rested, tends to be nicer when you're more rested. I can for sure say that the outcome of my day and the interactions I have with people definitely are reliant on that voice being, at least more towards the positive side. Even if not, maybe don't always reach the cheery, but definitely more towards the positive side.
Sheena Badani: It impacts your interaction with everyone, not just with yourself. I would love tips if anybody has amazing tips on how to quiet that voice or adjust that voice in your head do share, I would love to hear them. How to be a little bit kinder to yourself in that process.
Devin Reed: Sheena, hold onto that thought because in a couple of minutes, in a couple of seconds, we're going to go talk to Mariah. All we talked about for this interview was that voice in your head, how it relates to imposter syndrome and what folks can do to make sure that you're being kind to yourself, and ultimately how it will help you have better interactions with your customers. Let's go hang out with Maria.
Sheena Badani: Maria, welcome to Reveal. We're so excited to have you on the show today.
Maria Tribble: Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.
Sheena Badani: To kick things off, can you give us a quick overview of what you do at PathFactory and what you're currently focused on at your role there?
Maria Tribble: Yes, absolutely. I am the VP of enterprise sales here at PathFactory. We are a fast growth startup. We're focused on really using our proprietary content intelligence to help B2B marketers, very similar to how Gong helps salespeople. It's all about accelerating the buying journey and driving demand and things like that. When you ask what am I focused on that what makes me chuckle. When you're at a fast growth startup focus is like a day by day, sometimes hour by hour. It's all about intelligent speed and being agile ready to pivot. My top priority going into 2021 is really about ensuring that the account executives on my team are starting the year with very clear focus. Because it's a startup, because we cover both new logos and renewal expansions focus is so, so, so important to us to make sure they don't spread themselves too thin. To make sure that they're focused on what matters. We're doing a lot of work around making sure that we're focused on the most important top, 150 new logos that we're after for the year. Then dividing that across the team, really being laser- focused, getting our high- level advisors in to help us things like that.
Devin Reed: That is very validating because I talked to Sheena all the time. My focus for this year is focus, especially when you're at a fast growing company, it's easy to lose focus or just get pulled in so many different directions that you're not really focusing on any one thing. That is validating that Sheena and I are not alone in maybe one or two too many priorities.
Maria Tribble: Exactly.
Devin Reed: Maria, we go way back. I wouldn't say we've known other very well, but we actually met ON24 when I was very green in my sales career. You were a top performer. You were like the, the person ever wanted to shadow. I know I was trying to get on your good side by just learning first, what you do and how you do it so well. I understand that your first masterclass in sales actually came from an artist. That's unusual. Can you share a little bit more about that? Maybe there's a story behind that headline.
Maria Tribble: I really love that question because it immediately takes me back to those days when I was sitting beside this really enchanting older gentlemen, his name was George Jacobs. I just have such great memories at that. He was just such a magical person. He really was my first sales leader, if I think about it. We were at a farmer's market. That's where I met him. I guess they called it a craft market because there were no vegetables. We were in the firehouse of this tiny little town. It was a waterfront Cape Cod town. He painted the most beautiful watercolors. Just ink drawing and then colored it in. He was so successful. People loved his art. He would sit there and paint while we were there while he had all of his wares out to sell. I just watched him and I was in awe and I asked about it. The very next Saturday, I had a table right beside him. I had spun up a business within a week. I had made jewelry out of sea glass on the beach. I was, I don't know, 11, 12, 13. I still have his paintings hanging in my office and in my kitchen. I just love those memories with him.
Devin Reed: That is very cool. What about it made you set up shop in one week? Because that's pretty impressive. Catching the artistic bug. I think that happens, but to be like," I'm, I'm the next Bob Ross, I'm going to sit next to you and I'm going to make a business out of this too." What it sparked through that in you?
Maria Tribble: Well, I'm not going to say that my art was great or my jewelry was great because certainly it wasn't. What I loved was his ability to connect with these strangers. Strangers would walk through, he would compliment something about them. He would build a relationship with them in a matter of seconds. They would say something about his art. He would say something nice about one of their children. I don't know. It was just remarkable to watch him build those human relationships so quickly. That's what I wanted to do.
Devin Reed: You described him as enchanting, I believe a moment ago. I can imagine if I put myself in this craft market, they had a really good interaction with this guy. The art might remind them of that. You know what I mean? You've had this really quick interaction. You really enjoy it. You're like,"I'm going to buy this art. Every time I look at it in the house, I remember this like a feeling." I'm speculating, but that's kind of what the story tells me.
Maria Tribble: Exactly. Very true.
Sheena Badani: According to LinkedIn, one of your missions in life is really teaching young children how to be carriers of kindness as you phrase it. Can you explain that a little bit and what particularly sparked that passion for you?
Maria Tribble: This is both a wonderful story, but it also is a very sad story for me when I think about what really sparked up for me. My twins at the time were in kindergarten and I think they're in sixth grade now. It's hard to keep track. No, actually seventh that's terrible. The bus was late. They were on the same bus with another family. The mother of one of the children ended up getting hit by a car that morning when she was running with her children. It was just one of those shockwave moments in my life, went in the community's life. When you realize," Oh my gosh, a kindergartner can lose their parents at any given time." All of a sudden you've got kids growing up without parents. It's not fair. There was so much just sadness in the community over Meg Menzies dying and how shocking the whole thing was. I remember thinking to myself," What do I need my husband to do if that happens to me? What is the most important thing for my children to learn and to be in the world?" Gosh, I'm getting emotional, just remembering. There was a song on at the time it was a new Tim McGraw song about being humble and kind. Both of those things together just sort of slammed together. I remember telling my husband," The most important thing I want my children to learn from me and to be in this world is to be kind." All these different, really small things became like were born out of that. Catching smiles as we were driving, who can make the most stranger smile? Who can say the thing that you know changes that person's whole attitude and day. Make them go from looking sad to happy. You have to teach them things like don't tell someone with a filthy shirt that they have a beautiful shirt. That's not going to work out. I mean, one kind word, one compliment costs you nothing, and it can change someone's life.
Sheena Badani: Thanks for sharing that story and that experience. It's really quite amazing to see how you took such a powerful and sad moment in your life and then took that and made it your mission. You have a mission statement for your life and for your family that you can look to that true note each and every day. Bring that into your family interactions, bring that to your interactions with strangers. I suspect bring that into your interactions in the workplace as well.
Maria Tribble: 100%.
Devin Reed: I was going to say it's easy I think for impactful moments like that, or moments of loss to look inward and focus on oneself. I love how you took that and said, how can I shine a light externally and make other people smile? I love the idea. I'm definitely going to steal that. inaudible was a little young right now, but when she's older, how many people on the freeway on this road trip can you make smile or smile back?
Maria Tribble: Devin, this is seven or eight years later. My three children are still doing this. I mean, just a year ago, one of them brought a waiter to his knees, right back when we used to go to restaurants. He said something like," You're the best waiter we've ever had." The guy just dropped to his knees cause no one has ever, no one says that. No one. Certainly not a child. When that happened, it came out of nowhere. My 11- year- old says that to a waiter. I realized," Oh, I've got to get the manager and get them to repeat this to the manager." Because I bet this has never happened.
Sheena Badani: Amazing. This mission for being this carrier for kindness, it leads us to the topic of the day, which is imposter syndrome in sales. Why sales professionals also need to bring a little bit of that kindness to themselves as well. Can you first start just by defining what imposter syndrome means to you?
Maria Tribble: It's interesting. I think imposter syndrome is certainly talked about more nowadays, 10 years ago, I had never heard of it. In fact, I went back to see when Sheryl Sandberg's book Lean In was published. It was back in 2013. That is when I learned that I'm not broken. This is a thing. Lots of people suffer from imposter syndrome. I can actually remember the street I was walking on, the corner of the road and the sun was shining. I can remember that part in the book where she defined it. I realized," Oh my gosh, I am not alone. I need to learn more about this." The way that she really describes it in Lean In is that imposter syndrome specifically in work is a belief that you haven't achieved anything because you're not truly good at your job. It's multiple sightings of studies throughout her book that this prevalence of imposter syndrome within women is really due to that lower self- confidence. For me, imposter syndrome, how does it show up? I mean, luckily it doesn't show up as often anymore because I've been aware of it and working on it for many years now. It's this super loud, but very small negative committee. I often call them the itty bitty shitty committee that meets in my head. These voices that tell me," Wait, yeah, you got president's club this time or you won that deal this time, but surely was an accident. Won't happen again."
Devin Reed: You're not alone. I've had that as well. Something I focused on. I can't remember the moment I was validated like you were, but I remember, I think someone was just telling me like," I feel like a phony. I just don't really know if I like belong here." I remember it was so revolutionary that someone else felt that way. I wish I would have validated them. I wish they would have told them that I agree. I remember just being quiet but like," Oh, other people deal with this too. Other people have this enormous amount of self- doubt." What's interesting I'd love to hear from you more as oftentimes the things that voice is telling you other people, external people would never agree with. It's usually the things people are complimented." Wow. The way you run enterprise deal is phenomenal. It's really amazing." Yet in your head all week you're like," Someone's going to find out that I can't really."
Maria Tribble: You are exactly right. That is exactly how it works and how it shows up, for sure.
Devin Reed: Do you think there's anything about the sales profession that sparks that more often than not? Obviously, you're a sales person in mind, I don't know if you can compare it to other career choices, but something about sales specifically that triggers it for them?
Maria Tribble: I think I have become a little bit of an expert in this since I started managing other people. Having these conversations and having them come to me with these, these fears and this anxiety. I think at the end of the day, our profession, the profession of sales involves more anxiety than. I don't know any other occupation, maybe other than like brain surgeons who are afraid, they'll make a mistake. We have this like massive or we are riding a massive rollercoaster of emotions every day, with every deal, depending on where you are with your quota, with your year, with your boss, do you have a new boss, a new territory? In sales, our job is to be a trusted advisor on both sides of the table, for your employer and for the customer when it comes to facilitating those thorough evaluations of your product or service. Our job is really to establish a relationship of trust. There are so many twists and turns along that journey that we may often be on the upper side of the rollercoaster, but you never know where that next twist will lead you. Will the decision- maker on your buying committee leave? Will they have a reorg? Will they get purchased? Is the deal that you're creating the solution you're putting together? Is it good for your company and for your prospect? I think there are just so many anxiety inducing moments as you're navigating all of those factors in all of the opinions on both sides of the table again. If you make a single mistake, if you make a mistake on a proposal, if you forget to include a skew, if you miss a key piece of information, the scoping process, maybe they're on a different CRM or a different CMS. That actually means more work or more money you might end up having to make, you're going to have to fall on the sword with many people. The prospect, your boss, maybe your boss's boss. There's just so much anxiety.
Devin Reed: Something I tell sales reps when the new quarters coming, they don't know if they're going to hit quota or middle of the quarter and it's not looking good. I'm on top of the world and I can do no wrong. I'm half joking, but you're one email away from everything turning upside down. I've been down and out where I'm like," Man, I'm going to hit 80%. If I'm lucky doing the dishes, my email lights up, that Bluebird deal pops in while back now. I've got$50, 000 in commit and I'm going to hit quota and I'm going to look like a superstar." I've also been on the other end of that where I think I've got it locked up. I probably don't even have to show up to work this week. This thing is going to handle itself. You get one email," Hey, Devin, we're actually moving from Salesforce, so I don't know if this is going to make sense anymore." Your deal falls apart immediately. It happens quarter over quarter, year over year the best, to the worst happens, everyone in between. It's anxiety, I think it's part of the game. Every time you check your inbox, you're pulling the slot machine. If you're going to win big or lose big. How do you not have a sense of imposter syndrome? When that is simply kind of like the nature of sales?
Maria Tribble: I agree.
Sheena Badani: I think another aspect of this is as an AE every single day, you're putting yourself in a situation where you are expected to be an expert, but you are in this new environment that is unfamiliar to you. It could be," Hey, I typically sell to software industry and now have this new book of business or this new customer that's in telco. I don't know anything about being in telco, but I need to now speak the language. I need to talk the talk. I need to understand that market." You're also interacting with folks who may be much more senior than you, there's executives, who you're selling to that have worked for decades. You may be a greener in your own career. I think those scenarios, I mean, I'd love to get your take on that. Being in these unfamiliar situations, we're expected to be this expert is also, it could be quite nerve wracking.
Maria Tribble: There's so much studying you have to do. There's so much prep. Hopefully, you know some good customer stories in that, in that industry. Hopefully, you've noticed some connections in common and you can do some name dropping, but you are always on that first date every single you are on the... What is it that movie? The 50 First Dates that is your life as a salesperson.
Devin Reed: It's so true, too. Especially, everyone wants to sell to the decision maker, the C level, the VP. Simply the most intimidating people in the organization to sell to. I know that Sheena has such a good point. You go into this meeting and," I might've picked before to the last five quarters in a row. I might be the best rep on the team." You get into a room with someone who's got 20 more years of experience with you in the back of your mind you're just hoping you don't get called out for something you should know or you miss something. inaudible I don't know. Maybe you have a guy, an imposter syndrome radar, or some key, you know what I mean? Some behavior that you pick up on for your team to sense it? Then if you have any, I don't know, it doesn't have to be a technical or as tactical like a talk track, but you know what I mean? Any approach you have to say like," Okay, let's take a walk." I'm noticing something.
Maria Tribble: Yes. Oh my gosh, that's so important. It's going to be different for every single one of your direct reports. It comes back to that self- doubt circle. That negative committee in your head or in their head. Maybe it's just something that seems too hard to solve. Whether it's a proposal or a business case, or they've done a reorg, how do I salvage the steel? It's super easy to start listening to those voices. I know for me, early in my career, something like that would happen, I would immediately start. I remember, gazing out the window one day and seeing this landscaping crew spreading mulch. I thought," Oh my gosh, that was the job in college." Spreading mulch for that landscaper. That was when I was really good at what I did. I could do the job. At the end I could see my success because that garden or that whatever looked freaking amazing. Done, check, mark. I knew I did a good job. It's not like that in sales at all. As a leader, have to be able to recognize when any or all or individual team members are circling their self- doubt drain and be ready to redirect them. Get them back on track. For me, I mean, I remember this wonderful woman that worked for me back at Oracle. I saw it happen. A deal went South. It was not her fault. There are so many people involved being at Oracle. There's no way she could have blamed herself, but you could just tell the tone of her voice. You could tell that she was shaking. I said," You've got to close your computer. You have to go for a run. Do not come back to the office today. You can't. You are just spiraling." Actually, Devin you probably remember Ben Sullivan from ON24. Was he there when you were there?
Devin Reed: I love Ben Sullivan. Great guy.
Maria Tribble: Ben had a great advice for me. Maybe he only said it once, but it really stuck with me. I remember just trying to put together this enterprise deal for a huge customer. It was just too hard. I was so frustrated. I couldn't figure it out. He said,"You got to go cut the grass, go outside, cut the grass." Because he knew for me, the only way that I could come up with the right answer on any deal was to declutter my brain. He knew that I liked to push, I don't do this anymore. I like to push the lawnmower. I think I only got two kids at this point because I couldn't do anything else. It didn't matter that we had a riding lawn mower and it didn't matter that we had people that came and cut our grass. I liked to do that because I could only do that one thing. It was too loud. My hands were busy and he said," You do your best deal strategy when you can't multitask." That really stuck with me. That's something that I really think about when I see my team struggling, what is the thing? Maybe it's going to play disc golf, or maybe it's maybe it's going to drink with friends, whatever it is. A Cluttered mind and self- doubt, you can't find clear solutions in that situation.
Devin Reed: Albert Einstein once said that creativity is intelligence having fun. Play isn't just for kids. And it can take many forms. Play AKA time away from work is actually a very healthy habit for grownups too. Helping increase productivity, improve abstract thinking, and boost our ability to solve difficult problems. Yet few of us set aside enough time for play. That may be costing us our creative potential. A NASA study found that of 1, 604 five- year- olds, 98% scored at a creative genius level. Yet only 2% of adults scored at the same genius level. That means when it comes to creative thinking, we're actually getting much worse at a skill that's critical to our personal and professional success. Stay tuned to the micro action at the end of the episode, for tips to help you play more and tap into your inner creative genius. Ben might need to be invited soon Chino to Reveal. I'm almost embarrassed now that we haven't invited him. His voice when he's what? Six, seven, six, eight voices two to three times deeper than mine. He's naturally very commanding when he comes into a room. I remember moments similarly where I've been down and he'd can sense like," You're off your game a little bit. Pause into your office and one liners are quick paragraphs and it's like," Wow, that's exactly what I needed to hear. You mentioned it earlier it's stopping the spiral before you get near the bottom. Because it's really hard to climb back out of it. It can take weeks and sometimes people change jobs over it. Because it's like," I just can't. I don't see myself getting out of it."
Sheena Badani: 100%. I was watching masterclass by Sara Blakely, the woman who founded Spanx. She was talking about a very similar thing where what is that thing that helps you problem solve and come up with ideas like your idea time? She was saying like, for her, it's driving around in the car. When she lost her commute time, she lost her idea time. Her recommendation was like," Whatever the thing is for you. If it's mowing the lawn, if it's driving, make sure you carve that time out for you every day so that you can have that time to think creatively, to problem solve, to not multitask and do that proactively." It's not only when you're in that moment of," Oh my God, the world is going crazy and I can't figure this out. Try to incorporate that time into your, into your life every day."
Maria Tribble: 100%. I agree completely.
Devin Reed: I'm going to butcher the citation, but it was some articles on media about the importance of play. It's not playing itself, but it is like you said, taking your mind off the task at hand. Letting your mind be free to wander. I do not cook, so I'm not going to pretend like," Oh, Devin's the cook. He's cheffing it up. That's when his best ideas come." I was a tasked with dinner this week. There was some article I was working on. I couldn't get the angle I wanted. It wasn't popping where I wanted it. I remembered having the pan in my hand and I'm thinking about do I have salt now and it clicked. I was like," That's it right there." I dropped the pan, grabbed my phone, wrote it down. Burned what was in the pan, but it was worth it because I had my idea and I ordered DoorDash can solve all things.
Maria Tribble: I love that approach.
Devin Reed: crosstalk
Sheena Badani: I love that tip on finding that time for you to problem solve. What other recommendations do you generally give to the reps on your team to get out of their head and to trust in their own value, and their own abilities?
Maria Tribble: I think it ultimately starts with those authentic conversations between the sales leader and the salespeople. Encouraging them to be their authentic selves. I think the most important thing to remember, even if you walk into that room and realize the CMO is there, or the CEO is there, that person's just a human, just like you. We in the world of business do not want clones sales leaders do not want clones of the best salesperson. We want clones of their results for sure. I have such an incredible team of AEs here at PathFactory and we're hiring. Nice little plug there. They're all so, so different. That is what I love so much about them. The way that they build their rapport with their prospects, with their clients. I want to celebrate that. I want them to continue to be themselves. That needs to be talked about. Humans, sales executives, have a much easier time building trust with their prospects and their customers if they show up as humans first in every interaction. You can be honest. If you're having a bad day. I mean, maybe your pet died yesterday, or maybe you're having a great day because you listened to some podcasts that rocked your world. You can't wait to tell somebody about it. It's really like be yourself. For that mindset, you need to know who you're showing up as today. You need to know that if you're in a bad place, that you have some ways, not magic wand, but you know what to do to snap yourself out of it. Being aware when you start to feel a certain way," Oh, maybe it's time to go cut the grass." Maybe I need to go for a run. For the leaders to know what that thing is for each of your direct reports. It might be exercise, but it might be meditation. It might be yoga. It might be going to the bar back when we could do that. Calling someone, a friend for reassurance. Because again, Devin, like we talked about, you have that little itty bitty shitty committee in your head as well. Us talking about this now hopefully helps a number of salespeople out there realize that that is totally normal. You just need to know how to counteract it when you start to hear those voices.
Devin Reed: Absolutely. People are often shy to be vulnerable, but vulnerability is very contagious and you'd be surprised how much it's reciprocated when you just opened the door first.
Maria Tribble: 100%.
Devin Reed: This has been phenomenal. I think Sheena and me have a code word, which is, if me and you are stuck on an idea or a project you've got full permission to go tell me to cut the grass.
Sheena Badani: I definitely saying that, especially now that you have the backyard with grass in it, which you didn't before.
Devin Reed: I've got to plant some grass so I can go cut it. Maria, this has been great. We'd like to wrap up with the same question for all of our guests and it is how would you describe sales in one word?
Maria Tribble: I think authenticity has to be the name, has to be the word today. Showing up as your authentic self is how you win in sales.
Devin Reed: I like it and definitely reflects what we talked about today. Well, Maria, thank you again for your expertise and your vulnerability. I'm glad that our paths crossed again and hope it does again soon.
Maria Tribble: Absolutely. Thanks so much, guys.
Sheena Badani: Thank you.
Devin Reed: Every week, we like to bring you a micro action. Something you can think about. We're putting the play today. It's easy to get caught up in the imposter syndrome spiral. Here's some ways to bring playtime back into your life and help interrupt this pattern. The next time something triggers your," I'm not good enough story." Play can be anything you do just for the fun of it. Keep it simple and easily accessible. It can be a short walk, practicing your guitar, or drawing. Spending time away from work will actually spark new ideas for solving problem once you're back in work. Take time for activities that put you in a flow state where you lose yourself in the moment. For me, that's about an hour of writing almost every day. Make your workspace play friendly, keep fun objects, colorful pens, or anything insight that inspires you. I have a small colorful hand painted bowl from Spain. There's nothing even in it. It serves no purpose other than reminding me of a great vacation. Last, schedule short play breaks throughout your day, just to give your brain a break. Even 10 to 15 minutes off the laptop or phones can provide the right head space to come up with fresh ideas. Can I make a super quick ask? I bet our VP of sales that we can get to a hundred podcast reviews before Q1 ends. That's March 31st for us. It's a gentleman's wager for bragging rights because I love telling them." I told you so." We're already at 73 reviews. I'm hoping you can help push us over the edge. All you have to do is take 27 seconds to give Reveal a five star review on Apple Podcasts. It's that simple. I appreciate it and thanks for the help. Did you like today's episode? Subscribe now so next week's episode, we'll be waiting for you on Monday.
Sheena Badani: If you really liked the podcast, please leave a review. Five star reviews go a long way to help get the word out there.
Devin Reed: If you're not ready to give a five, check out another episode and see if we've won you over by then.
Sheena Badani: If you have any feedback or you want us to interview one of your favorite revenue leaders, just email us at revealatgong. io.